I’ve opened Lemmy today to lots of anti Canadian sentiment on any recent comments about how messed up 'murica is and it’s constant attacks on Canadian sovereignty.
Don’t get sucked in. Let them yell into a void. The online campaign has begun in earnest on Lemmy and it’s time to point it out and recognise it for what it is.
These are not real people. They are actors trying to affect our decisions as always happens when American exceptionalism is challenged. Our government had the balls to stand up and say no. We have the balls to do the same. They do not like it and will attack you for it.
Don’t fall for the bait.
The world will only be a better place if these people self identify more quickly. I mean, it would be better if they do not exist but, since they do, I am very supportive of them expressing their opinions so that I do not have to waste time discovering them.
Canada gov should ban X, at least for pre-election
Just the fact that banning a private social media company during the election can have measurable effects is concerning.
X should be banned full stop.
Charlie Angus created a petition for this. https://www.ourcommons.ca/petitions/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-5359
Signed!
Government should be supporting democracy by providing publicly funded and managed spaces for debate and the release of information, especially government information. Abandoning these spaces to corporations is abdication of responsibility and compromises our democracy. It is not necessary to ban X, but it is not acceptable to require people to use X just to receive information from or communicate with our own public services.
I really like that idea. The government runs Canada Post as a crown corporation. The government could set up a crown corporation to facilitate the online messaging of Canadian citizens without subjecting them to ads and invasive tracking.
Or they could make it part of CBC’s/Radio Canada’s mandate.
I have long believed that the CBC’s role should include making broadcast media accessible to citizens, but perhaps IT and communication services could be a new department. Internet is critical to both state and citizens, and should definitely be a government service! Oh, shit, I just got a cease and desist letter from Bell, Rogers and Telus the moment after I typed that sentence.
Like a USENET server at the very least.
Truth Social as well
Facebook as well
Facebook especially
That is a given, I have never seen it advertised in anyway up here though.
I remember we made a petition to the Canadian government about getting on the fediverse, and it got enough signatures. The response made me think they couldn’t even figure out what that meant.
Not so sure - yes don’t feed the trolls but we can’t just let them control the narrative. When Elon starts posting made-up polls on Twitter showing Canadians want to join the US, we need to have started the precedent already that that is a lie. I say, don’t give up any space for free.
Oh I agree with not allowing the space to be overrun and go unchecked. I mean for individuals to recognise it for what it is right now. That stirring of the pot.
Some of them might be real people.
Scapegoating is an extremely successful technique. Instead of dealing with the complexities of the modern world, the supposed strong man can just give people easy and reassuring answers.
Americans problems are not because of unchecked capitalism and the wilful dismantling of the scientific, legal, economic, and political systems designed to help them. It’s because Canada, led by its Mexican Drug Cartels, are taking advantage of them.
Never mind that it’s patently stupid. Never mind that the system of getting access to our raw materials for cheap so they could process them in their countries and their industries was overwhelming as good for them as it was bad for us.
Never mind reality — what matters is that an easy answer was given. It’s not them, they don’t have to confront any harsh truths, or take any painful looks in the mirror, or have to step out of their comfort zone. The Americans were given the answer to their problems by their King, and that answer is Canada.
So the “strong man” strikes at Canada to show how tough they are. And to no one’s surprise, Canada doesn’t take it lying down. We stand up for ourselves and hit back — saying that surely when they see pain they will stop and reflect.
But no, they don’t. Because our hitting back justifies our already-established status as villain. How dare Canada threaten to levy energy exports, says the King. The Canadians have no decency.
And so, feeling the pain we caused, the Americans listen to their King, and they blame us because that is the easy answer. They don’t have to think, they don’t have to pause the sportsball game or the reality tv marathon. It was Canada all along.
So yes — there may be bots and such, but make no mistake that the vocal opposition to Canada will only grow inside America as the trade war escalates.
I agree with you completely. It will become real people if it is not already. It is about controlling the narrative. I just wanted people to be aware mostly that it’s ramped up significantly today. An obvious escalation over what has been happening the past several months. Lots of new (up to a month old) accounts and such that hadn’t posted until yesterday or today.
People don’t have to believe the misinformation they repeat, as long as they believe it justifies some action that will benefit them. For example, the more depleted the Colorado river basin gets, the more British Columbia will turn out to be full of terrorists and cartels, or its leaders plotting to disrupt the Frasier River, or whatever else… It’s not like the details matter.
What matters is that the people in the place with the thing you want are evil now.
I don’t rule out hostilities directed at Canadians on lemmy being something directly fomented by bots or including bot participation. But that’s a rather low-value influence operation. I’d wager at least some is just a side effect of the vector that concerns me more: the faithful spreading a gospel aimed at Americans to manufacture American consent for something.
I am convinced our elections were somehow rigged here in the states. At the very least, the bots changed the outcome. But now that the shit-heels are in power, there’s fuck-all that can be done about it. I’ve resigned myself to leave. I’ve been wanting to at least a decade or more, but I can’t rest on my comfort anymore. It’s time.
I do hope Canada can overcome this. I fear for the entire world. I am rooting for you, the EU, and general sanity worldwide.
For sure. For what it’s worth I’m pretty new too. If this place continues to grow it will be a bigger target for misinformation campaigns so it’s wise to be vigilant
The degree of traffic that happens in online discourse hits an 11 during these events; some are engaged in good faith, some are actors and useful stooges, but most are LLMs (and sometimes legacy low effort bots that are much easier to spot, great for confirmation bias); the technology for drive-by commentary has never been “better” than now, and a dozen or so unique system prompts and not even a dozen RTX-4090s is more than enough to create a false consensus across the entirety of a platform.
Musk has 200,000 of even higher end ones (H100s). Get ready for this to be on all the time.
Unfortunately some of them are real people, I’ve had voice conversations with people who believe the bullshit line that “Canada and Mexico are taking advantage of us” that’s coming out of these figureheads they blindly follow.
They have zero critical thinking abilities, and that means they can’t be reasoned out of their position by showing them facts or asking them to prove their logic.
The amount of disinformation towards Canada in the red states is insane, and has been going on for a while.
People are literally being brainwashed, it’s downright scary.
At first I did believe that if Trump ordered an invasion of Canada, Americans would be so against it that it wouldn’t happen but now I’m not so sure. MAGAts have gone from not thinking about Canada at all to thinking we’re personally fucking each and every one of them. It’s insane, like it’s all happened within a month.
Democrats are better but a lot of them just wave off the idea of invasion as “a Trump distraction”. Some (CNN…) just laugh about it and say we’d make them more progressive
Exactly. I’m genuinely scared.
It’s true - I can remember a year ago, maybe two? Back when he was still on Fox News Tucker Carlson was constantly on about how we were under a tyrannical dictatorship and how Americans should “free” us. This “not viable as a country” thing is just another attempt at justifying their aggression and it’s just as hollow and stupid. The lies and fallacies just cycle through until something sticks, it’s the goals that remain the same.
The truth is, they want us out of the way because our multiculturalism and socialism are threats to their siloed reality. We’re too similar to them, too successful. We’re a living repudiation of everything they believe, of all the lies they need to be true to justify their cruelty and bigotry.
We were never going to be allowed to live in peace, for no other reason than we are a constant reminder of the truth.
Good. Let these idiots be loud. Let every Canadian see what the Fuck Yeah 'Muricans think of us, so that the sting lasts as long as possible. We don’t want to get lulled back into business as usual once Asshole Donny bits the bullet.
Good thing as a Canadian I don’t care what Americans THINK of us too much. They value their independence so do we.
We American don’t value anything but consumerism and escapism so we can remain ignorant to real human life.
Yeah but having the sentiment out there can still harm our own politics by giving rise to the people within Canada who support fascism (indirectly or directly). I don’t know anyone who gives a fuck that Americans might not like us but I know at least a few who think that our government should be following in the footsteps of Americans, and given that I live in a fairly liberal city, I can only imagine it’s much worse in some of the other areas.
This is how it started with trump in America. The social media brigades and odd social networking that just seems illegitimate. It’s sad watching CA Europe getting bombarded with the same methods they used in America. I’m watching it happen to you guys the same way it happened here.
Start planning now. Observe silently and don’t participate in their theater. It’s meant to entice you they are fueled by reaction to it. Observe silently and plan so that you can always be ready. They will always turn any real talk into pointless debate. There is never a way to talk a real conversation with these people and that’s on purpose. I’ve been dealing with these people since 2016.
Luckily, Lemmy has a fairly effective way to deal with those. Don’t block them, instead use the down arrow ⬇️ so the next buddy either doesn’t see it, or sees the negative score as a warning. Unlike corporate for-profit social networks, Lemmy won’t push those comments to the people that would get triggered most. Instead they’ll fade into oblivion as quickly as the downvotes roll in.
I’ll admit that I’m not the most patriotic American (I’m an emigrant, for one), and I’m not from a deep trump area, but I don’t know a single American, except for maybe my fox news addled dad, who doesn’t think Canada’s completely in the right. Even Vermonters who worry about heating their homes want trump to stop, not Canada.
Oh I can enrage americans? Awesome. It’s going to be a good day. A not getting banned off reddit day.
LLMs will yell into the void. It’s never been simpler.
Find a Lemmy app that has user tagging (I use Voyager, and previously Connect) and when you see these users make a note of each one with a red tag so they stand out when you’re browsing.
You’ll start to see the bastards turning up in all kinds of conversations as well as posting ridiculous shit. That’s what I did with the Russian/American trolls/bots during the american election. Very enlightening to see in a political thread who the repeat offender shit-disturbers are so you can down vote, argue with, or report them instead of blocking them and allowing their infection to spread.
Tagging is handy for nice people as well; the community of people around you on Lemmy starts to look more familiar, smaller, and friendlier than you realize, and dick heads become easier to spot.
Using Connect rn, can I ask what prompted the switch to Voyager? Connect seems pretty solid so far.
I personally skipped Connect because it was clear from the post phrasing they had moved from it to Voyager already. I like to learn from others where I can, but have zero exposure to Connect so cannot answer you fully.
Did you get my other comment as a reply to you? I was replying to cheeseburger lol so I’m wondering if it’s my app or yours
The short version is Voyager will also keep track of how many times I’ve up or down voted someone once user tagging is enabled. That’s killer because it naturally tags users I’ve come into contact with even if I didn’t set a specific tag for them. Then I start to recognize users from my up and down votes and maybe set a specific tag from there.
I still have Connect installed, I used it for my first year here since it was a close experience to Relay For Reddit, and the Dev is Canadian. I like the way Connect looks a little better, and it has a much nicer comment draft/preview system.
After running both together for a while, I found Voyager’s entire user tagging system, with tracking and a summary of all tags and votes I’ve set, to be extremely valuable info. It has a lot of great features like Connect, but it’s FOSS as well, so maybe a higher chance someone will improve the features I use in the future. I have stuck with it now for the last 9 months or so, it’s great.
seems like a lot more work than blocking them. engagement and arguments is what they want so they get an excuse to say even more of their stupid shit.
I’ve been trying an experiment on r/onguardforthee. I block the belligerent reactionary accounts. You know what I’ve noticed. Not only are there repeat customers. Some of these accounts are playing both sides.
It’s not uncommon to see a top comment presenting a popular rational take. Where some time ago I’ve blocked it because it’s a shit stirring right winger.
They are also quite often the OP of top posts in the subreddit.
Some kind of crowd-sourced tagging would be a cool anti-troll technique. A lot of less experienced websurfers struggle to spot “inauthentic behaviour” (bots, astroturfing, etc) so it could be beneficial. Reddit has a huge problem with sleeper accounts though, where they build up reputation with low-effort comments over years, then activate when a campaign needs them. The social media marketers seem to sometimes use the same techniques as the state-sponsored troll farms.
Every single social platform has tried to do this and failed. Once a platform reaches critical mass the bits, scammers, etc… move in and start exploiting any “honour” mechanism that might exist.
Probably the best I’ve come across is ycombinator news but that’s pretty niche.
There was a reddit add on that showed when a user had negative karma in certain subs, and you could edit the sub list and karma threshold on your own. Organic downvotes were something that was very difficult for bots and scammers (and nazis) to avoid
Cool, I just wrote “this guy is helpful on you” for that. Really helping start to figure out Connect.
I just switched to Voyager (from Jerboa, which did everything I thought I needed, until now), because of this post. I can absolutely see the value of tagging, and I am jumping in, starting with tagging everyone in this thread with a red-and-white “coureur des bois” tag.
This is a bad idea. It’s what started Reddit going to shit.
I would also like to know how that works.
Explain how a client-side note that I personally set to remind me of information I learned about someone a bad idea that will ruin Lemmy?
Because politically some people are so adverse to conflict they use client side notes to dig little burrows for themselves. Meanwhile the other groups love conflict, they thrive on it and will invade every burrow they come across like Foxes. What this means is all the good spaces get taken over much quicker when one whole group of afraid prey like people try to avoid mean comments they don’t agree with. It results in this internet red carpet being laid out across these platforms for rapid take over. One of the first things I saw suggested wherever a subreddit would go pro trump was the regular people suggesting apps that let people know not to engage with certain power users. It was like a landing party sent to soften up the local militia
Well, I’m tagging you now…
Yea that doesn’t change what I said. There’s only so many corners left to run to online. There’s a reason for that.
How do you use the tagging feature? I’m on Voyager too, when I click on a user profile I don’t see any tagging options. Only block and send message.
Go to Settings->User Tags -> Enable User Tags.
Then you’ll see the option in the user profile.
Don’t forget to tag yourself!
How’d you tag yourself? After enabling the feature, under my profile I only see “Mod Logs”.
Edit: also thanks for showing that I can separate the vote counts, I clearly haven’t explored the app enough 😅.
I long press a user name to edit and set tags, including my own!
I feel you though, I never used to bother too much with settings and purposefully stuck to defaults unless I had an issue, but since I’ve been using more FOSS apps I’m finding my defaults mantra to be very limiting. Many times I can have a great experience with ten minutes of tinkering I wasn’t willing to do before.
Ahh, I gotcha, now that is a useful shortcut. Thank you!
Hahaha yeah, I’ve been seeing that with FOSS apps too as I’ve been slowly diving into them more. The current climate has really been quite the impetus.
Hot damn, you’re a gem, thank you!! That’s super useful. :)
I wish that there was a browser plug-in for Lemmy that would replicate the “Mass Tagger” that was available for Reddit.
This does seem handy. Also why doesn’t Voyager remember previously created tags and let you pick them quickly?
This is even more rampant and unchecked on Reddit - the Buy Canadian subreddit is infested with either outright “MURRICA FUKKKIN A BRO” types or the more subtle “concern trolls” — “Won’t you miss this product? What will you do when you can’t afford things anymore? Don’t you realize these companies employ Canadians - why do you want to hurt your neighbours?” Yeah - not here for that noise.
hopefully people will see through it and it’ll backfire and just reinforce people staying strong
I strongly suggest Canadians read this.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-global-tariffs-canada-1.7484790
