War is barbarism, and we Americans have voted for more warmongering than our next ten competing countries combined. Please keep pretending we’re the good guys while our country is going on eight years of aiding Saudi Arabia in starving Yemen.
a missile strike on a historic cathedral – one that was consecrated by the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, no less, killing one and hospitalizing fourteen
How does America being a war mongering monster have anything to do with Russia missile striking innocent civilians in a nation they promised to protect. A sovereign nation being ground into meat, but none of that is barbaric because the US and CIA loved the fuck out of proxy wars and coups?
How does America being a war mongering monster have anything to do with Russia missile striking a nation they promised to protect.
It’s relevant in that we, as a nation that vote for the world’s foremost war machine every two years, shouldn’t be pretending to be a moral authority. (At least, not until we’re willing to hold ourselves accountable.)
Also, the block button is there if you don’t like what you see.
You started this thread by saying it’s not barbarism and then started talking about America’s sins.
That has nothing to do with the topic at hand, they both are true, but you are specifically using whataboutism to shift from Russian barbarism. Why? Why is terrorism and missile striking not barbaric? Why is that unimportant and that instead you feel we must look towards America?
Why are you so quick to shift the topic from current Russian aggression against an innocent nation (the topic of the post) to the past of the West?
Since you need the help:
Whataboutism is a type of logical fallacy that occurs when a person attempts to divert the focus away from the current issue by making a counter-accusation
Yes I know I can block you but I have no problem continuing this discussion. :)
So you think words of an Ukrainian priest about Russian atrocities published by a British media source are invalid because… Americans vote for warmongering? Really?
Or do you believe barbarism is a zero-sum game and only one place in the whole wide world can engage in it at the same time?
And finally, you say “This isn’t barbarism. War is barbarism” - what exactly do you believe is happening in Ukraine right now?
You contradicted yourself in just six words, that’s some impressive gymnastics.
The reason whataboutism is such a lame debating “tactic” is that you’re literally agreeing with the position that you’re supposedly trying to argue against. “Doing X is terrible.” “Yeah, well, America does X, so America is terrible too.” Yes… so?
“Yeah, well, America does X, so America is terrible too.” Yes… so?
Take it one step further next time you’re in a polling both, and actually vote for people who are against it. Think about all of the things other countries have that we don’t because we ship a trillion dollars off to war each year, like health care for example.
Canada is a good example. They spend a mere 24 billion a year on war. The UK doesn’t have enough funding or material to sustain war at an American rate for more than four months. Both countries have robust health care systems.
Americans can pretend that, since this is a proxy war, that no one here in our country is negatively affected, but the neglect we inflict upon our people to make war in eight countries at once means our people end up dead here. Remember that this week when the heat wave kills Americans who might otherwise have lived if they could have gotten a piece of the hundred billion in charity we gifted Ukraine.
It just so happens that I am Canadian. So I can’t vote for whatever it is you want me to vote for that would somehow “fix” America. Which is still irrelevant to the issue of Russia’s barbarism, the actual topic that this thread is about. Not America.
One thing I can do to oppose Russia’s barbarism is to support more military aid for Ukraine. Which I do. And Canada, despite its smaller military budget, has been doing plenty in that regard. So that all seems to be in order.
Americans don’t need to pretend about it. We are well aware that our war machine is what keeps the dollar on top, and keeps our place on the world stage. Adversarial countries are well aware. The reason China has publicly stated they want a military that can compete with the US by 2050, is because the smartest people in government understand your influence only goes as far as your military can reach. That military ability has come at a cost of basic things a world leading country should have at home: healthcare, affordable higher education, etc. Imagine if all of those brilliant minds in the military were instead focused on the issues that face an average citizen!
If you feel so strongly about warmongering, you should be just as against this as you are against other nations doing the same thing.
You can be opposed to America’s military industrial complex and this at the same time - unless you are deliberately trying to downplay the violence against Ukraine for some reason.
You’re on a thread about russia bombing a goddamn cathedral for no good reason, and the only thing you can talk about is “well this isn’t that bad because America also bad”.
Stop pretending you’re anti-war. You’re anti-America, and quite possibly anti-Ukraine and pro-russia. I have no respect for the likes of you, you deceitful ass.
This isn’t barbarism.
War is barbarism, and we Americans have voted for more warmongering than our next ten competing countries combined. Please keep pretending we’re the good guys while our country is going on eight years of aiding Saudi Arabia in starving Yemen.
Huh???
From the article:
Sounds barbaric to me, as is all other terrorism
So do we and our allies. How familiar are you with US’ warmongering?
I am quite familiar. America is not innocent.
How does America being a war mongering monster have anything to do with Russia missile striking innocent civilians in a nation they promised to protect. A sovereign nation being ground into meat, but none of that is barbaric because the US and CIA loved the fuck out of proxy wars and coups?
Take your whataboutism somewhere else.
It’s relevant in that we, as a nation that vote for the world’s foremost war machine every two years, shouldn’t be pretending to be a moral authority. (At least, not until we’re willing to hold ourselves accountable.)
Also, the block button is there if you don’t like what you see.
You started this thread by saying it’s not barbarism and then started talking about America’s sins.
That has nothing to do with the topic at hand, they both are true, but you are specifically using whataboutism to shift from Russian barbarism. Why? Why is terrorism and missile striking not barbaric? Why is that unimportant and that instead you feel we must look towards America?
Why are you so quick to shift the topic from current Russian aggression against an innocent nation (the topic of the post) to the past of the West?
Since you need the help:
Yes I know I can block you but I have no problem continuing this discussion. :)
Well said
Who’s “we”, kemosabe? The literal country of America isn’t participating in this thread. Individuals are. Many probably aren’t from America at all.
Well said. I’m so done with Americans acting like the whole world revolves around them.
“we” Please understand that not everyone on the internet is American and that your country isn’t the center of the world.
Done and done. Thanks for making lemmy a great space with intelligent discourse. 🙄
Nobody here said that America is a saint. Stop your whataboutism and understand that two countries can both be bad.
So you think words of an Ukrainian priest about Russian atrocities published by a British media source are invalid because… Americans vote for warmongering? Really?
Or do you believe barbarism is a zero-sum game and only one place in the whole wide world can engage in it at the same time?
And finally, you say “This isn’t barbarism. War is barbarism” - what exactly do you believe is happening in Ukraine right now?
You contradicted yourself in just six words, that’s some impressive gymnastics.
The reason whataboutism is such a lame debating “tactic” is that you’re literally agreeing with the position that you’re supposedly trying to argue against. “Doing X is terrible.” “Yeah, well, America does X, so America is terrible too.” Yes… so?
Take it one step further next time you’re in a polling both, and actually vote for people who are against it. Think about all of the things other countries have that we don’t because we ship a trillion dollars off to war each year, like health care for example.
Canada is a good example. They spend a mere 24 billion a year on war. The UK doesn’t have enough funding or material to sustain war at an American rate for more than four months. Both countries have robust health care systems.
Americans can pretend that, since this is a proxy war, that no one here in our country is negatively affected, but the neglect we inflict upon our people to make war in eight countries at once means our people end up dead here. Remember that this week when the heat wave kills Americans who might otherwise have lived if they could have gotten a piece of the hundred billion in charity we gifted Ukraine.
It just so happens that I am Canadian. So I can’t vote for whatever it is you want me to vote for that would somehow “fix” America. Which is still irrelevant to the issue of Russia’s barbarism, the actual topic that this thread is about. Not America.
One thing I can do to oppose Russia’s barbarism is to support more military aid for Ukraine. Which I do. And Canada, despite its smaller military budget, has been doing plenty in that regard. So that all seems to be in order.
Americans don’t need to pretend about it. We are well aware that our war machine is what keeps the dollar on top, and keeps our place on the world stage. Adversarial countries are well aware. The reason China has publicly stated they want a military that can compete with the US by 2050, is because the smartest people in government understand your influence only goes as far as your military can reach. That military ability has come at a cost of basic things a world leading country should have at home: healthcare, affordable higher education, etc. Imagine if all of those brilliant minds in the military were instead focused on the issues that face an average citizen!
If you feel so strongly about warmongering, you should be just as against this as you are against other nations doing the same thing.
You can be opposed to America’s military industrial complex and this at the same time - unless you are deliberately trying to downplay the violence against Ukraine for some reason.
Russia should stop invading Ukraine so the war would end but they keep shooting missiles at civilians instead
Ok Yuri.
Fuck off, tankie.
just a quick fyi, you’re posting in a beehaw community. you can call out whataboutism without leading with “fuck off”.
I love the Sylveon pfp.
That’s a really silly pejorative for someone who’s anti-war.
You’re on a thread about russia bombing a goddamn cathedral for no good reason, and the only thing you can talk about is “well this isn’t that bad because America also bad”.
Stop pretending you’re anti-war. You’re anti-America, and quite possibly anti-Ukraine and pro-russia. I have no respect for the likes of you, you deceitful ass.
US Americans*
Most counties in America don’t supply arms to the Saudis.