Apologies for the slightly off-topic post…
It’s not looking good, folks…
George R R Martin confirms he hasn’t written anything for the 2 remaining A Song Of Ice And Fire books since 2022.
He wishes that they were finished.
The last published book in the series, A Dance With Dragons, was published in July 2011, now 13 years ago.
Obligatory song that’s now 12 years old… https://youtu.be/j7lp3RhzfgI
Him and Patrick Rothfuss need a writing camp or something.
at this point this is a HL3 situation and it’s better if he never finishes the series. it will never live up to expectations. leave it be. if you enjoyed the story so far, celebrate that and move on. it’s about the journey, not the destination.
He’s never finishing the series. He’s going to be 76 in a month, he still has probably most of Winds to finish after 13 years, the math doesn’t work out to getting A Dream of Spring, let along the fact that this story is way too big to satisfactorily conclude in 2 books at this point, and even if it could be done it would be complex and difficult and take longer than usual.
I’m irrationally still hopeful we get Winds. But that is it.
Martin gave a more nuanced answer in which he said he envied authors who self-publish their books and thus don’t have to worry about deadlines
Like this bitch is worried about deadlines. Like deadlines mean a goddamned thing to him. I remember when Game of Thrones started airing wondering if he could finish the books before the show ended. This seemed like a possibility at the time? I don’t even remember. All I know is there has been nothing for 13 years. 13 years. I get it, he’s having more fun with other shit, but just hire someone to ghostwrite them with you. This is your main legacy, whether you want it to be or not.
Apparently being constrained by deadlines turned him into a procrastinating, spineless teenager.
Remember when GRRM was so pissed that people criticized his friend Robert Jordan for faffing around for over a decade and never finishing the Wheel of Time series? Yeah, same.
He should just get Brandon Sanderson to finish it for him prehumously
Shocking.
GoT’s final half and definitely last season pissed me off to no end at the time, but in retrospect I’m glad I don’t have to care about this anymore.
I’m entirely unsurprised.
D and D got a lot of heat for the last season of Game of Thrones, but I’ve never thought they were entirely, or even chiefly, to blame. Most of the problem really is that GRRM obviously desperately needed an editor to rein him in as the series went along, but for whatever reason, that didn’t happen. So now he has this huge, sprawling story that’s going in eighteen different directions at once, and just as D and D couldn’t manage to tie it all together, neither can he.
D&D’s biggest problem is they did a good job adapting pre-existing material, but couldn’t adapt a PowerPoint deck.
IIRC from some article or interview way back then, Martin had provided D&D an outline of all the major plot points he intended through the end of the series. So while they might not have had the specifics, the major points would have been there.
If that was true, then it would make sense that they used those major points for the basis of the rest of the show. After the abysmal reception of those points by the fans, I would imagine Martin would have stopped to think about his plans, possibly losing interest entirely.
That assumes that he did in fact provide those major points to D&D in the first place to have adapted however.
There are three subreddits I miss after leaving reddit, and one of them is r/freefolk.
Nah. The problem are not GRRMs plot points they more or less hit, it’s that they did it in the most moronic ways imaginable.
I always felt that one of the main problems with GoT/ASOIAF was that it was a nuanced, political fantasy with top class world-building, but the overarching plot was pushing everyone towards a massive final confrontation (or 2 really). There was not really a good way to resolve the confrontation without a massive battle (or 2). So the ending was always going to have to move away from what made the series interesting/successful (book and TV), i.e. plot, characters, intrigue, shades of grey.
There were other problems as well, but that was something baked into the whole series by GRRM, and I’m not sure he can really find a way to do it differently. He might come up with a different outcome of the final confrontations, but it still has to be done with epic battles.
The Hobbit ends in a massive battle that seemed made for TV, but Bilbo gets a bonk on the head. I’m sure people don’t need to hear about the ebb and flow of the battle. Have King Stannis host a feast afterwards and the few characters left alive can trade highlight stories.
Upvote for Stannis the Mannis
So the ending was always going to have to move away from what made the series interesting/successful
While you have a point, I don’t think the ending was necessarily bad because of that.
To me the resolutions they did use were just badly executed. I’d have been fine with the battle of the bastards resolving the Bolton plot, if the battle as shown didn’t make me scream at my screen every 2 minutes from all the logic holes. Same with the fall of Highgarden, Daenerys going insane, Bran becoming King etc. They could have reached mostly the same outcomes and it could have been fine. But the build up and the attention to detail just weren’t there at all. And it wasn’t even that they ran out of time, they deliberately shortened the last 2 seasons because they wanted it to be over.
He’s my spirit animal
Brandon Sanderson finished wheel of time. Let’s just give it over to him.
🎵 We are never, ever getting A Song of Ice & Fire ♪
Imagine you’re writing an epic tale that gets converted into the world’s most popular TV show, then flown into the side of a mountain by some shitty director. I’d imagine the hate mail and public ridicule he probably got would make anyone lose the drive to finish.
What if the ending to show is actually really, really similar to the ending of the books? I’ve seen theories floated about how certain book-only events might make it more satisfying even if the broad strokes (Bran becoming king etc) are the same - but damn seeing people completely reject your series conclusion would take the wind out of anyone’s sails.
I don’t think many people rejected the conclusion outright, just the path of getting there. So much of the last season was totally nonsensical. Dothraki ride off into the darkness and get obliterated by zombies; next episode, they’re back! Everyone forgets about the Iron Fleet. Jamie ditches a 7 season character arc in a second. Arya subverts expectations and undermines the existential threat in an instant. The all-seeing, all-knowing Bran serves no purpose except to have “the best story” somehow. Dany heel turns from saving the world to destroying it on a whim.
Most of Game of Thrones, books and show, is predicated on causality. Things happen for a reason. And they happen realistically, not necessarily in the way we want. It was a breathe of fresh air in the beginning. Honor isn’t rewarded for honor’s sake. Strength is a tool, but a slippery slope. Travel takes time. When that realism is thrown out to force plot, it undermines the entire show.
So it’s not necessarily the ending that was bad, it was how it got there.
Is this community ok with confusing fantasy and science fiction? I thought it was a snob librarian’s thing.
I know some stories mix both, but I don’t think ASOIAF has anything to do with sf.Martin was mostly a Sci Fi author before ASOIAF. Still is, seemingly.
snob librarian’s thing
And I couldn’t figure out why a certain pirate streaming platform does this. I choose scifi category, and it’s filled with fantasy and anime… Your comment might be a clue as to who’s behind the platform. A ring of radical outlaw librarians!
Sci-fi and fantasy are traditionally considered a lower form of fiction/literature which is why the sometimes get lumped together.
On the other hand we have Brandon Sanderson with 20 year roadmap and consistent release coupled with all the secret novels that he wrote.
I have this sneaking suspicion that he has this black magic power to suck all the creative will of writers, including GRRM and Patrick Rothfuss.
With Brando the Mando Sando it boils down to work ethic and process.
He has said in lectures that while writing a first draft, an author should be able to push out a thousand words an hour. That’s pretty reasonable if you’re a decent typist and you’re just focusing on getting rough ideas down. Once he’s got a draft, he throws it to his editor(s) who gets to work. If he’s gotten a draft back from them with notes, he gets on that. Otherwise, he’s cranking away at the next first draft.
The man is prolific because he’s got his team dialed and treats it like any other job. He shows up with a plan and executes.
Then he turns around and tithes to one of the most socially backwards, openly corrupt churches to be formed in the last 200 years.
If that wasn’t bad enough, he scammed the community into backing a 43 million dollar kickstarter for an exclusive, never-to-be-released-on-audible project. Not even a year after release, he reverses completely and releases everything to audible without even a credit to the backers.
Absolute scam artist. I’m 85% convinced he’s gonna come out with a Salt Lake City “creativity compound” where he’s got a 20 cell sweatshop of indentured “employees” pumping out cosmere drafts. Dude has had creepy Cosby vibes for years and there’s definitely a reason somewhere.
Ok.
This might be the largest gap between technically correct and ungenerous reading of events that I’ve ever seen.
I know nothing about this author but people always recommend his books. Is OP wrong? Or is there missing context.
It’s just a very ungenerous interpretation of a lot of factually correct things. Brandon Sanderson is, indeed, Mormon and while I’ve never heard him say as much explicitly, the way he talks a out his faith makes me believe that yes, he does tithe to the church.
As for the audio book stuff, when Sanderson was doing his massive kickstarter for his four secret projects, he said that the audio books would not initially be available on Audible/Amazon. He said this was because he believed Amazon had too much market power and that he was successful enough that he didn’t need them and would thus withhold releasing his books on that platform. I don’t recall him ever saying that they would never be released there. Partway through fulfillment of the kickstarter, he announced that Amazon had changed its compensation structure (for all authors, not just him) in the direction he wanted and tbuse he felt it was okay to release his books on Amazon’s platform.
If you like heroic fantasy with unique magic systems, I recommend giving him a shot. I like to compare him to Marvel movies: not groundbreaking or innovative or the pinnacle of the art form, but competently made that hits all the emotional beats you want out of the story in a familiar and comforting way.
I stopped reading Sanderson specifically because he puts out so many books with unnecessarily huge page counts that I just don’t care anymore.
I’m not allergic to long books either, having read the entire WoT series 3+ times. But I’d much rather read stuff that authors have spent time on instead of mass producing.
I sometimes go months or years before picking a project back up, so I can relate.
I’m still waiting on a sequel to the Runaway Bunny
So no one read the article? Just the headline?
This references a statement he made in 2023 which itself references a statement he made in 2022 saying he had the same number of pages completed.
This is an assumption that he has done nothing, rather than the far more likely situation of rewrites and editing.
People seriously some basic media literacy lessons.
Plus it’s not like he’s literally done nothing for thirteen years. He did Fire and Blood, wrote for TV, did a bunch of companion books, edited and produced stuff, and so on.
It would be nice if Winds didn’t seemingly get put on the backburner, but creators really can’t control their inspiration. George has as many stories to tell as hes always had, but for whatever reason he’s having trouble coming back to finish the story he started almost thirty years ago, and TBH I get it.
rather than the far more likely situation of rewrites and editing.
At this point that feels like the bigger assumption
Especially after 13 years.
