seen this post elsewhere? click for explanation
This post got banned from [email protected] for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕
I mean this meme with full respect and love to my fellow community members and I was proud of the discussion and support it was creating.
EDIT: POST RESTORED YAY. (Thank you to the mods it turned out to be a misunderstanding.)
Important clarification/FAQ
I am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!
I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)
Very good comments that express key points:
- Detailed summary of the situation if you’re wondering what’s going on
- The rhetorical value of the bear hypothetical and what this means for you
- One example of why the long-term rhetorical value of the hypothetical is poor, in the context of intersectionality
- What does disenfranchisement mean in this context?
- The importance of not asking women to tone down their expressions of fear and frustration
- “But why can’t they just say it nicely?”
- The importance of participation in kindness toward young men, specifically outside the context of people speaking their experiences
I mean yes I could have used the term “toxic masculinity” but men not steeped deeply in feminist theory tend to react badly to it, and self-identified feminists (usually also not quite firm in theory) getting called out for engaging in it tend to react even worse. And I already used quite a lot of budget on the privilege check, so, yeah, better avoid that one.
Oh your edit.
Because the overall narrative is women are weak and in need of protection while men are not, and if they are, it’s because they are a) toxic male view losers b) toxic female view in some way inherently broken because how can you fail as a man in a world made for men.
Looking at the difference between the toxic perspectives: At least the male one doesn’t lend itself to denying the very existence of men with issues. On the toxic female side you get things like radfems shutting down domestic violence centres for men as it clashes with their idea that men are inherently never victims. Reality, it seems, has a compassionate bias so it has to be denied.
In 2024 the bar is still too low. Many men deny we need feminism at all, despite the fact that it benefits everyone. Gender roles and expectations are generally bad for everyone. Advocating for women generally is advocacy for men as well.
(btw did you see my edit to your edit)
In theory, yes. In practice you get self-avowed feminists reinforcing the patriarchy, hence why I did the privilege checking.
Not in theory, in reality. You are describing a bogeyman feminist, the crap like we see with Hannity and Carlson.
I replied to that purported bogeyman directly. Called out what you correctly identified as toxic masculinity.