Oh my lord I’m so tired of this crap. I’m sick of anti-Zionist Jews who tokenize themselves when they represent a small fringe minority of the Jewish community. I’m tired of these Jews saying idiotic things like, “I’ve never experienced antisemitism, so it must be blown out of proportion.”
And I’m sick of people falling back on the “criticism of Israel isn’t antisemitism” bullshit. The angry mobs on our streets and university campuses aren’t “criticizing Israel.” Calling for intifada is not criticizing Israel. Calling for the destruction of Israel is not criticizing Israel. Vandalizing businesses and Jewish buildings is not criticizing Israel. Telling Jews to go back to Poland is not criticizing Israel. Saying things like “Zionists aren’t welcome here” is not criticizing Israel. Pressuring organizations to cancel Jewish film festivals or art shows is not criticizing Israel. Assaulting Jewish students on campus is not criticizing Israel. Etc, etc, etc.
And I’m sick of people falling back on the “criticism of Israel isn’t antisemitism” bullshit.
And yet, regardless of your level of fatigue, it remains true and nothing else you said refutes that.
Kinda missed the point, didn’t ya?
You don’t have a point. Antisemitism exists therefore criticism of Isreal is illegitimate isn’t a point worth entertaining.
Perhaps you should actually read my initial comment. Or is that too difficult for you?
Your initial comment doesn’t say anything relevant to your thesis. Simply typing words isn’t an argument, and plenty of criticism of Isreal remain perfectly legitimate, and bombing children, even if you contort yourself into pretending that’s self-defense, remains wrong.
My initial comment describes all the things anti-Israel protesters are doing that aren’t “criticism of Israel.” That’s the point. They’re not criticizing Israel, they’re calling for its destruction.
The attempt by Netanyahu and his far-right allies to get us all to conflate a dislike of them and their actions with a dislike of Jews is one of the most antisemitic messages around. They are the ones who are trying to taint people’s understanding of Jewishness itself by associating it with being a belligerent, murderous asshole, and they do it with utter disrespect for Jewish identity, for Jews who disagree with them, and for the damage this could do to Jewish people’s lives and other people’s understanding of Jews. If you want to resist antisemitism, resist the cynical, self-serving and short-sighted messaging of Netanyahu and his friends.
If there’s one upside of Israel’s actions in the last year, it’s that this gap between attitudes to Israel and attitudes to Jewishness, and the distortion Israel’s government attempts by painting its critics as antisemites, have become much clearer to people around the world. They have been so heavy-handed about it that people are now less likely to conflate these things.
Wow. I don’t even know where to begin with this. You do realize how bigoted this is, don’t you? You’re basically saying, “I can totally understand why people have a problem with Jews because of the behavior of some extremist right wing Jews.” You might want to take a step back and think about that.
Holding all Jews responsible for what happens in Israel, let alone what a particular Israeli government does, is antisemitic. And no, it’s not our fault. It’s the fault of the antisemites. Our very long history is full of antisemites gaslighting us and blaming us for our persecution. Jews killed Jesus. Jews were behind the Black Plague. Jews are greedy capitalists. Jews are communists. Jews refused to accept Islam as the one true religion. Jews are trying to take over the Middle East. The Jewish state is racist and genocidal. The Jewish state loves to kill Palestinian children. See the pattern here?
The upside to Israel’s actions over the past year is sending a clear message that the Jewish state isn’t going anywhere, and if you try to kill us you will suffer greatly.
“I can totally understand why people have a problem with Jews because of the behavior of some extremist right wing Jews.” You might want to take a step back and think about that.
You yourself admit that worldwide antisemitism is a problem. These people are not thinking subtly. I can understand why people do all kinds of horrible things, but it doesn’t mean I’m sympathetic or defending them.
Holding all Jews responsible for what happens in Israel, let alone what a particular Israeli government does, is antisemitic.
I’m saying that a particular group of extreme right wing Jews is encouraging people the world over to make that antisemitic conflation. They do so because in the short term it serves their interests, but in the bigger picture it causes damage.
And no, it’s not our fault. It’s the fault of the antisemites.
It’s the fault of antisemites and those that egg them on.
See the pattern here?
Of course. Vile antisemitism has a long history.
The upside to Israel’s actions over the past year is sending a clear message that the Jewish state isn’t going anywhere, and if you try to kill us you will suffer greatly.
In the process it sends a message to the world that Israel is brutal, racist and hateful. It may end up damaging Israel’s interests more than helping. Netanyahu does what’s best for Netanyahu, not for Israel or for Jews.
Your thought process is so ass-backwards it’s mind-boggling.
Israel gets invaded by barbaric terrorists who butcher 1200 people and take 250 more hostage. The next day another terrorist organization operating in a different country begins launching rockets into Israel in sympathy. Both those organizations are sponsored by a repressive radical Islamist regime that has openly stated its genocidal intention towards Israel and Jews. So Israel does what ANY other country would do - it fights back. And you turn around and say, “Fighting back makes them look brutal, racist and hateful. It’s no wonder people hate them.”
How do you not see how fucked up this is?
The upside to Israel’s actions over the past year is sending a clear message that the Jewish state isn’t going anywhere, and if you try to kill us you will suffer greatly.
“Isreali bombs killed and continue to kill thousands of children, but at least they sent a message” lol. Tell us more about your moral superiority. Isreal gets to do whatever they want so long as unquestioning, uncritical support from the US remains. I think that particular type of support from the US may be more fragile than you think.
You don’t understand the Middle East, do you? Strength and power is what leaders respect in the Middle East. They’re not sending a message to Palestinian children, they’re sending a message to Iran and its proxies.
Do you think Israel should just stand down and let Iran move in for the kill?
You don’t understand the Middle East, do you? Strength and power is what leaders respect in the Middle East. They’re not sending a message to Palestinian children, they’re sending a message to Iran and its proxies.
You literally just missed my point and proved it all at once. How many children are you willing to kill to send your message to the right people?
Do you think Israel should just stand down and let Iran move in for the kill?
There is literally no possibility of that happening.
“Won’t anyone think of the poor children?” If you don’t want children to die in war, don’t fucking start war.
Literally no possibility, huh? WTF do you think they sponsor Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis for? Why do they have a doomsday clock in Tehran literally counting down to Israel’s destruction? Just for shits and giggles? But here’s the bottom line: Neither you, nor any other ignorant Western leftist, has the right to demand that Israel takes that chance. That’s exactly what Jewish self-determination (AKA Zionism) is all about.
“Won’t anyone think of the poor children?” If you don’t want children to die in war, don’t fucking start war.
Cool, so because of Oct 7, Isreal has an infinite moral right to kill children? The ones that had nothing to do with this war? LOL. Ridiculous nonsense that you know is wrong. You consider Palestinians subhuman and so does Netanyahu’s regime.
Literally no possibility, huh?
Yes, there is literally no possibility. Isreal will nuke Iran before that happens.
WTF do you think they sponsor Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis for? Why do they have a doomsday clock in Tehran literally counting down to Israel’s destruction? Just for shits and giggles?
Because being against Isreal is the Iranian regime’s political stance that they can’t sway from, mostly in order to stay in power. Similar to how Netanyahu expanded and prolonged this war in an effort to stop his government from falling - a ploy that worked. He didn’t invent this strategy of staying power, but he executed it very well.
But here’s the bottom line: Neither you, nor any other ignorant Western leftist, has the right to demand that Israel takes that chance.
There’s no chance being taken. Isreal has nukes, infinite US support, and the US seventh fleet on speed dial. Nothing you said is relevant, Isreal remains completely morally responsible for every bomb they drop and for every child they kill. Apparently the Isreali right to security is so great that literally nobody around them has any lol. The desire for security is NOT a unique Isreali right nor does that desire offer a blanket moral justification for any action.
That’s exactly what Jewish self-determination (AKA Zionism) is all about.
No it’s not, and you know it. You just don’t care. The Isreali state as a whole is not in danger.
This isn’t difficult to grasp. Israel has the right to go to war against its enemies, and children die in war. If you can explain how to fight a war without children dying, I’m all ears. But the responsibility for those deaths lies with the people who started the war - especially since they started it knowing full well that large numbers of Palestinians would die in the process. They want those deaths.
Honestly, you’re just incredibly naive about this. It’s frightening that so many people are so blinded by their hate that they have come to see barbaric terrorists and radical Islamists as the good guys. Your moral compass is just so messed up.
Oh, and don’t lecture me on what Zionism is. It’s our movement. We defined it.
Hear, hear.
Non Israeli Jews have some soul search to do about their relationship to the Israel.
Blind support by got us here… And not just from the Jews either.
How are my goy friends more Zionist than I am? When’s the last time that letting a government shape policy in the name of religion ended well?
Heartland American Christian fundies… Holy baby Jesus… These clowns are more Zionist then the Israeli regime.
I don’t understand how that even happened but even every American jew went anti Israel. Politically it wouldn’t change much for US support IMHO.
Not every American Jew. *side eyes my own family and about half of my community*
And they are not in it for support of Jews. They are not Israeli Jews’ friends. They want the temple rebuilt so that the second coming happens, which will lead to the rapture, leaving Jews to languish in Armageddon.
One of them frequently used to say to me “first to the Jew.” I had to explain how incredibly uncomfortable that made me.
For most Jews, their relationship with Israel has only been strengthened since Oct 7, 2023.
Probably true but there is definitely an element who ain’t larping zionism.
Yes, it’s a small fringe element.
I’m not Jewish so take whatever I write with a grain of kosher salt, but we should not minimize the very chilling effect of the attacks on schools and synagogues have. And those do tend to happen more often in times such as these.
I mean, it had a chilling effect on my family and community just because my ethnic school is close to a Jewish school whose door was shot up. I can’t imagine how terrified the people who send their kids to that school must be. These are not trivial things.
It’s hard. I don’t think we the non-jews in the pro-palestine camp are doing enough to take antisemitism here in Canada seriously, much less combat it. Part of it is triage of energy, but part of it is I think also misguided tribalism that buys into the Zionist lie that all Jews are linked to the state of Israel.
One thing I would love to see would be that every time a Jewish institution is targeted, there would be public and loud displays of solidarity by the pro-palestinian crowd. If anything, every Jew that feels safe and comfortable in Canada is a Jew that is not resettling to Israel.
Thank you very much.
There is a significant chilling effect for sure. One example which might seem insignificant to others but makes the Jewish community very angry is how every single statement about antisemitism made by a public figure or organization has to have “and Islamophobia” added to it. It’s as if people don’t feel they can highlight Jewish suffering on its own because people will be offended. This would never be tolerated with any other group.
