I’ll never forget the time I ran into an old friend of mine and I went to give him a hug and he awkwardly laughed and said uh, no, and shook my hand.
We’re still very good friends and we send several texts to each other every week.
But it’s a terrible feeling when you instinctively go to hug someone with zero sexual feelings and get instantly and reflexively rejected. I don’t blame my friend. I blame our fucked up culture.
'Murica: where we love our guns more than we love our school children. Is it any wonder men can’t hug here.
My goddamn dad does this to me. Like I made a conscious decision years ago to give him hugs because I felt like it was bullshit to not show him affection. After a few years he started intercepting me and now forces the handshake.
He also became radically conservative in that time…
I don’t know your friend, but I just don’t like people touching me in general. I’ve had people get upset that I won’t hug them, but my boundaries are valid and should be respected. Not everyone wants to hug.
I understand where you’re coming from, and your boundaries should be respected. Which is why I did not make an issue out of it. Like I said, we’re still very good friends. And when he waved me off I just laughed awkwardly back and went with it.
And…I know him really well. It isn’t that he doesn’t like being touched. He, like a lot of men in America, is super phobic about anything within 500 miles of “gay”.
That phobia shit is ridiculous. My first roommate was an openly gay guy (I’m straight), and the number of questions I got about my living situation or discomfort some clowns had about coming over was absurd. I thought folks had gotten somewhat better about it by now, but I guess not. Sad to hear.
You’re friend might be afraid of “gay” touching, I wouldn’t know. But I do think that can also be an easy way to explain away someone’s boundaries without understanding the complexity of the behaviors involved.
I have fairly strong boundaries, and as a general rule I don’t want people hugging me. This isn’t because there is something sexual about the hug, but because I don’t want the unwelcome close physical contact. A lot of people get to the point of welcoming that kind of contact faster than I do, and that’s fine, good for them. But that doesn’t make my comfort level less valid. And critically, one thing that makes it so hard is the social expectation, the idea that there is something wrong with saying no, and the implication that you should let people do these things that make you uncomfortable. In fact some people will ignore those boundaries and act like it’s doing you a favor, as though willfully inflicting themselves on others is supposed to make people less defensive.
And yet, if someone is having a hard time and needs an arm around their shoulder, I’m there. I will absolutely hug someone who is hurting and needs to be comforted. I’m a very caring person, and I don’t have a problem with that kind of physical contact when it’s for someone else’s benefit, as long as it’s my choice to offer it.
Sexuality only really enters into it in that a bit of sexual attraction can also quickly overcome those boundaries. It’s easy to welcome intimate contact with someone when a primitive part of your brain is trying to nudge you into doing whatever it takes to get this person naked and pressed against you. It’s a specific desire overriding the general preference for boundaries, not the context for all physical contact.
I think the key difference is whether or not a man rejects hugs only from men or from all people. I’ve met plenty of people who aren’t huggers - male and female - who don’t like being hugged by anyone except maybe intimate partners or close family members, but if a man is only afraid of getting hugs from men then that’s a separate issue from general bodily autonomy.
Same, I don’t even like handshakes. I’ll happily accept a fist bump. I’m different around my wife and kid, because I don’t open up like that for just anyone—not even the rest of my family, long story I don’t feel like telling. Doesn’t mean I’m not emotionally unavailable; on the contrary, my coworkers are happy to have me on their team because I am very much the opposite of that, I am empathetic and just want everyone’s day to go by as smoothly as it can.
I think you have to accept that people have different boundaries on how they want to show affection to different kinds of relationships, and that this doesn’t mean they don’t love you.
I’ve been very clear in my replies that I do respect those boundaries. Some people don’t want to be touched. This has been heard, understood, respected by me, and there is zero counter-argument from me. There is no lack of understanding or need to correct me on this point.
And the incident I recalled did no long-term damage to our friendship. It was a hurtful moment, I got over it, I didn’t push the issue, and we’re still friends.
The point of the OP’s post and my first comment is to try and address how unfortunate it is that the cultural default is: men hugging is icky and gay.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but your last line is ridiculous. Everyone in LotR was armed to the teeth, and that was no hindrance to expressing their feelings for one another.
I’m not sure how that is different. They had same sort of awe for weapons that a lot of weapon hobbyists do. Hell, I remember reading about/seeing ceremonial and decorative weapons in LOTR.
Pretty sure the goodly people like humans, elves, dwarves, and Hobbits didn’t mow down their own kids with crossbows on a regular basis like we do with our guns.
During war also. Unless you were under the assumption there weren’t killings and shit outside of war during medieval times or something.
there are modern countries in the world today where children are not regularly shot to death in school.
I’m not ignoring it at all. You just hadn’t added that caveat before. You were just talking about people using weapons to kill their kids which did regularly did happen swords and crossbows. It’s not like people have changed for the better.
I’m used to hugging my friends, and saying ‘Love ya, bud.’ I never thought that was weird, as my dad is fairly physically affectionate, until my high school girlfriend had her dad give us a ride. He was absolutely bewildered at the behavior as I said goodbye to my friends.
I’ll never forget the time I ran into an old friend of mine and I went to give him a hug and he awkwardly laughed and said uh, no, and shook my hand.
We’re still very good friends and we send several texts to each other every week.
But it’s a terrible feeling when you instinctively go to hug someone with zero sexual feelings and get instantly and reflexively rejected. I don’t blame my friend. I blame our fucked up culture.
'Murica: where we love our guns more than we love our school children. Is it any wonder men can’t hug here.
My goddamn dad does this to me. Like I made a conscious decision years ago to give him hugs because I felt like it was bullshit to not show him affection. After a few years he started intercepting me and now forces the handshake.
He also became radically conservative in that time…
To be fair, you might be trying to fuck him. A handshake is safe.
That’s fucked up dude. You deserve for your dad to hug you. Everyone does
Maybe he’s taking those Alex Jones manly man pills
I don’t know your friend, but I just don’t like people touching me in general. I’ve had people get upset that I won’t hug them, but my boundaries are valid and should be respected. Not everyone wants to hug.
I understand where you’re coming from, and your boundaries should be respected. Which is why I did not make an issue out of it. Like I said, we’re still very good friends. And when he waved me off I just laughed awkwardly back and went with it.
And…I know him really well. It isn’t that he doesn’t like being touched. He, like a lot of men in America, is super phobic about anything within 500 miles of “gay”.
That phobia shit is ridiculous. My first roommate was an openly gay guy (I’m straight), and the number of questions I got about my living situation or discomfort some clowns had about coming over was absurd. I thought folks had gotten somewhat better about it by now, but I guess not. Sad to hear.
You’re secure with yourself, they are insecure.
You’re friend might be afraid of “gay” touching, I wouldn’t know. But I do think that can also be an easy way to explain away someone’s boundaries without understanding the complexity of the behaviors involved.
I have fairly strong boundaries, and as a general rule I don’t want people hugging me. This isn’t because there is something sexual about the hug, but because I don’t want the unwelcome close physical contact. A lot of people get to the point of welcoming that kind of contact faster than I do, and that’s fine, good for them. But that doesn’t make my comfort level less valid. And critically, one thing that makes it so hard is the social expectation, the idea that there is something wrong with saying no, and the implication that you should let people do these things that make you uncomfortable. In fact some people will ignore those boundaries and act like it’s doing you a favor, as though willfully inflicting themselves on others is supposed to make people less defensive.
And yet, if someone is having a hard time and needs an arm around their shoulder, I’m there. I will absolutely hug someone who is hurting and needs to be comforted. I’m a very caring person, and I don’t have a problem with that kind of physical contact when it’s for someone else’s benefit, as long as it’s my choice to offer it.
Sexuality only really enters into it in that a bit of sexual attraction can also quickly overcome those boundaries. It’s easy to welcome intimate contact with someone when a primitive part of your brain is trying to nudge you into doing whatever it takes to get this person naked and pressed against you. It’s a specific desire overriding the general preference for boundaries, not the context for all physical contact.
I think the key difference is whether or not a man rejects hugs only from men or from all people. I’ve met plenty of people who aren’t huggers - male and female - who don’t like being hugged by anyone except maybe intimate partners or close family members, but if a man is only afraid of getting hugs from men then that’s a separate issue from general bodily autonomy.
Same, I don’t even like handshakes. I’ll happily accept a fist bump. I’m different around my wife and kid, because I don’t open up like that for just anyone—not even the rest of my family, long story I don’t feel like telling. Doesn’t mean I’m not emotionally unavailable; on the contrary, my coworkers are happy to have me on their team because I am very much the opposite of that, I am empathetic and just want everyone’s day to go by as smoothly as it can.
I think you have to accept that people have different boundaries on how they want to show affection to different kinds of relationships, and that this doesn’t mean they don’t love you.
I’ve been very clear in my replies that I do respect those boundaries. Some people don’t want to be touched. This has been heard, understood, respected by me, and there is zero counter-argument from me. There is no lack of understanding or need to correct me on this point.
And the incident I recalled did no long-term damage to our friendship. It was a hurtful moment, I got over it, I didn’t push the issue, and we’re still friends.
The point of the OP’s post and my first comment is to try and address how unfortunate it is that the cultural default is: men hugging is icky and gay.
I agree with a lot of what you say, but your last line is ridiculous. Everyone in LotR was armed to the teeth, and that was no hindrance to expressing their feelings for one another.
Its not about the weapons it’s about the weapon culture. In the LOTR they respected the weapons and their purpose, simple.
I’m not sure how that is different. They had same sort of awe for weapons that a lot of weapon hobbyists do. Hell, I remember reading about/seeing ceremonial and decorative weapons in LOTR.
I’m sure any gun nut will happily tell you how much they respect guns.
Thank you, very nicely put into context.
This is nonsense
Pretty sure the goodly people like humans, elves, dwarves, and Hobbits didn’t mow down their own kids with crossbows on a regular basis like we do with our guns.
Historically there’s been a shitload of children slaughtered with swords and arrows.
During war. Really reaching aren’t we.
And completely ignoring the fact there are modern countries in the world today where children are not regularly shot to death in school.
During war also. Unless you were under the assumption there weren’t killings and shit outside of war during medieval times or something.
I’m not ignoring it at all. You just hadn’t added that caveat before. You were just talking about people using weapons to kill their kids which did regularly did happen swords and crossbows. It’s not like people have changed for the better.
Well yeah it was a war. Everyone was armed to the teeth because war. Except in the shire where nobody was armed because peaceful land of homes.
I’m used to hugging my friends, and saying ‘Love ya, bud.’ I never thought that was weird, as my dad is fairly physically affectionate, until my high school girlfriend had her dad give us a ride. He was absolutely bewildered at the behavior as I said goodbye to my friends.
Some people just don’t like hugs
I don’t hug no matter how non-sexually. No touching pls.
Shaking hands is great.
I don’t know why everyone is all over hugs and are like “oh you’re a weirdo for not being comfortable hugging me”.
I’ll hug my guy friends but a handshake is just better.
Hug female friends handshake guy friends. (Girls are shit at shaking hands).