I've always been familiar with Quake, but only as a multiplayer game. I've played a lot of arena shooters (I'm more of an Unreal Tournament fan), but for whatever reason I never got around to playing the real Quake. I didn't really expect much considering how badly DOOM has aged, especially in terms of level design and general game feel, but I was really impressed.
Quake holds up on all fronts. The gunplay feels good, the movement feels great, the enemy variety is pretty good, and the level design is a night and day difference from DOOM and DOOM 2. It's hard to imagine that they came out only two years apart.
Despite being copied a million times, I feel like Quake holds its own against modern shooters. I would recommend it to anyone who likes movement shooters, and I probably should've played this ages ago.
P.S: I HATE SHAMBLERS I HATE SHAMBLERS I HATE SHAMBLERS
I unironically think Doom aged better than Quake, especially in the audiovisual department.
Doom has a nice style to it but the level design is just masochistic. Most of the levels are just spamming powerful enemies and having you run in circles to whittle them down, that is if the level isn't intentionally claustrophobic and obtuse. I love GZDoom and all, but the official campaign isn't fun imo.
I feel like you're describing some fan made slaughter map, not any of the Doom episodes lol. The only thing I somewhat dislike about the level design is the labyrinthine nature of it, but you get used to it after a while thanks to the automap. If anything I wish the official Doom episodes had more enemies and used the strong ones more often, especially in the first game you mostly just fight imps for duration of it even on ultra-violence.
No, the level design in original Doom is weak compared to Quake. It’s not as bad as he describes it, but it’s seriously held back by the tech.
Sure, the original Doom engine couldn't handle multiple floors and complex geometry so the levels were fairly horizontal and labyrinthine, but I think that in a way that made it so the developers had to be even more creative and many of the levels in turn are just downright memorable to say the least. What I can say though is that I can easily remember most of the Doom 1 and 2 levels, meanwhile Quake for me is nearly a complete blank.
To each their own, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think you're on to something. There's something more "grokkable" about Doom's 2.5 maps (some more than others, admittedly), both as a player and maker. And I think it shows in the incredible number of Doom maps people have made over the years.
I think the limitations of the Doom engine work both against and in favor of the game, the enforced limitations kind of "distills" the levels to it's bare minimum, pure creative level design, forcing the developers to work around those "barriers" as I've said, you can see this with older map packs like Alien Vendetta where the map makers were pushing the limits of what the engine could achieve. With the risk of sounding utterly pretentious, there's a sort of artistry to making good Doom levels and this is somewhat lost nowadays with limit breaking source ports like GZDoom.
I'm with you - a really beautiful vanilla map, that pushes the visplanes, is much more impressive than a limit removing equivalent. I'm not saying that the latter maps lack artistry, but vanilla requires that you look at your map from every angle in almost excruciating detail. The result – to me – just feels that much more intentional/authorial.
OK now I'm definitely sounding pretentious :p
Doom had worse technology, but the sound and art direction is in a other league.
I think stuff like the limited color pallette may have been due to technical limitations where they would need to fit solid gradients of every color into a 256 color pallet to do the convincing dynamic lighting and the like.