Sisko can and should show up on SNW to help Pike get his jambalaya recipe just right, then vanish without any explanation other than that he needs to get back to his children and wife.

Especially because it’s not a naming convention used for any other show: we don’t call Voyager ST:V, or Prodigy ST:P. The logical abbreviation is either DIS or DSC

We saw the uniforms go mostly black in DS9, so I think it is meant to show how the Federation isn’t totally recovered from the Dominion war…I wish they had pushed than angle harder re: the struggle to help the Romulans, the Synths, etc. At least by Lower Decks they’re back to the more colorful uniforms!

Or as the Engineer from TF2 said:

Hey look, buddy. I’m an engineer, that means I solve problems. Not problems like “What is beauty?”, ‘cause that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems! For instance, how am I gonna stop some big mean Mother-Hubbard from tearin’ me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer? Use a gun. And if that don’t work, use more gun. Like this heavy caliber, tripod-mounted, little ol’ number designed by me, built by me, and you’d best hope… not pointed at you.

My favorite joke in Brooklyn Nine Nine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5QoYZuMILo

For folks who haven’t seen the show, the Captain is normally stoic to a near-fault. RIP André Braugher.

Also, I think it’s worth pointing out that Adira was from Earth, which at that point had left the Federation, and had become seemingly a much more paranoid place. So that Adira was uncomfortable and worried about what folks might think of them seems reasonable, since they weren’t used to living in the Federation, where being nonbinary isn’t something anyone should be worried about sharing with others.

Thank you for saying that: it’s been interesting to see things from another perspective.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

I certainly agree that there’s more crying than I’m used to in Trek, but I wouldn’t call that wokeness (unless the crying was about a reason that was “woke”, I guess?). Mostly I chalk that up to popular entertainment dripping with CW style shows (for the worse, of course). That said there was a fair amount of crying/emotional outbursts from Sisko and others on DS9, especially if we take the Maquis into account - like Sisko said, it’s easy to be a saint in paradise. Doesn’t jive with the perfect crews we’ve seen on the Enterprises, but like DS9 being a run-of-the-mill station that got swept up in religious politics and galactic war, Discovery was “just” a bleeding edge science ship that went through hell, so it does kind of make sense that people would be more than a little traumatized and outburst-y.

Totally agree that the casts being treated like it was normal is a great message to send without focusing on it, but they did touch on it occasionally. In the TNG pilot itself, Geordi and Crusher talk pretty openly about his blindness IIRC, and he says something to the effect of “I was born this way”, and he rejects potential “cures”, showing how comfortable he was with what others would consider a curse.

Also there most certainly episodes reassuring Data he was part of the crew. An entire episode reassuring him he was sentient, right? It was central to his (and others’) growth over the series. Whether he was truly a sentient being or not definitely draws parallels to dehumanization in the real world, and was pretty blatant about it.

Plenty of folks on TNG had to talk through their problems - that was pretty much the point of Guinan, in a lot of ways, and even having a Betazoid on the bridge. Feelings and emotion were being pretty openly explored in a way that’s just different to the way things are now. Mental illness has over the decades been normalized in a way that is kind of incredible. Again though, the amount of crying does irk me (that much I agree with, especially when shit is literally on fire). I just don’t consider that to be wokeness in my face, just shoddy writing.

I’m not downvoting either of you, and I hope this doesn’t sound like me being argumentative, I just want to know what you’re seeing in Discovery that I haven’t seen in all the other Trek series (see me other comment in this thread, I guess). Morality lectures are central to Trek, IMHO.

What about Discovery felt like it had a spotlight on it more than “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”? Or that TOS put a diverse cast front and center on the screen, including folks hailing from nations that were currently/recently enemies of the USA at the time? I grew up watching TNG, and the way Geordi turned the concept of what it meant to be ‘disabled’ on its head felt really pointed, even for child me. Likewise the dehumanization of Data.

I’m happy to gripe about worse writing, but if someone wrote a shoddy story that included a couple giraffes (because giraffes were more popular nation-wide), I wouldn’t get mad about “giraffe messages” in entertainment, I’d get mad about shit writing.

This isn’t far from the logic put forth in Kill The Poor by the Dead Kennedys. https://genius.com/Dead-kennedys-kill-the-poor-lyrics

To reply to myself, because it merits its own giant text box: for anarchist-minded folks like myself, I’d highly recommend reading Homage to Catalonia, because it gives some glimpse of how things might work in a less-hierarchical military (in the cases like in Trek’s Starfleet that weapons are sometimes unfortunately needed).

https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0201111.txt

The main sections I want to quote are:

The essential point of the system was social equality between officers and men. Everyone from general to private drew the same pay, ate the same food, wore the same clothes, and mingled on terms of complete equality. If you wanted to slap the general commanding the division on the back and ask him for a cigarette, you could do so, and no one thought it curious. In theory at any rate each militia was a democracy and not a hierarchy. It was understood that orders had to be obeyed, but it was also understood that when you gave an order you gave it as comrade to comrade and not as superior to inferior. There were officers and N.C.O.s but there was no military rank in the ordinary sense; no titles, no badges, no heel-clicking and saluting. They had attempted to produce within the militias a sort of temporary working model of the classless society. Of course there was no perfect equality, but there was a nearer approach to it than I had ever seen or than I would have thought conceivable in time of war.

But I admit that at first sight the state of affairs at the front horrified me. How on earth could the war be won by an army of this type? It was what everyone was saying at the time, and though it was true it was also unreasonable. For in the circumstances the militias could not have been much better than they were. A modern mechanized army does not spring up out of the ground, and if the Government had waited until it had trained troops at its disposal, Franco would never have been resisted. Later it became the fashion to decry the militias, and therefore to pretend that the faults which were due to lack of training and weapons were the result of the equalitarian system. Actually, a newly raised draft of militia was an undisciplined mob not because the officers called the private ‘Comrade’ but because raw troops are always an undisciplined mob. In practice the democratic ‘revolutionary’ type of discipline is more reliable than might be expected. In a workers’ army discipline is theoretically voluntary. It is based on class-loyalty, whereas the discipline of a bourgeois conscript army is based ultimately on fear. (The Popular Army that replaced the militias was midway between the two types.) In the militias the bullying and abuse that go on in an ordinary army would never have been tolerated for a moment. The normal military punishments existed, but they were only invoked for very serious offences. When a man refused to obey an order you did not immediately get him punished; you first appealed to him in the name of comradeship. Cynical people with no experience of handling men will say instantly that this would never ‘work’, but as a matter of fact it does ‘work’ in the long run. The discipline of even the worst drafts of militia visibly improved as time went on. In January the job of keeping a dozen raw recruits up to the mark almost turned my hair grey. In May for a short while I was acting-lieutenant in command of about thirty men, English and Spanish. We had all been under fire for months, and I never had the slightest difficulty in getting an order obeyed or in getting men to volunteer for a dangerous job. ‘Revolutionary’ discipline depends on political consciousness–on an understanding of why orders must be obeyed; it takes time to diffuse this, but it also takes time to drill a man into an automaton on the barrack-square. The journalists who sneered at the militia-system seldom remembered that the militias had to hold the line while the Popular Army was training in the rear. And it is a tribute to the strength of ‘revolutionary’ discipline that the militias stayed in the field at all. For until about June 1937 there was nothing to keep them there, except class loyalty. Individual deserters could be shot–were shot, occasionally–but if a thousand men had decided to walk out of the line together there was no force to stop them. A conscript army in the same circumstances–with its battle-police removed–would have melted away. Yet the militias held the line, though God knows they won very few victories, and even individual desertions were not common. In four or five months in the P.O.U.M. militia I only heard of four men deserting, and two of those were fairly certainly spies who had enlisted to obtain information. At the beginning the apparent chaos, the general lack of training, the fact that you often had to argue for five minutes before you could get an order obeyed, appalled and infuriated me. I had British Army ideas, and certainly the Spanish militias were very unlike the British Army. But considering the circumstances they were better troops than one had any right to expect.

FRIENDLY NOTE: I don’t mean this to sound combative, I just want to offer a different (more optimistic) perspective.

What’s missing here is the central conceit of Trek: that humanity grew up. We could have a utopia now if people would just stop being greedy little shits, and decided to embrace empathy and forgiveness. There’s nothing stopping every single person in a modern conflict from dropping their weapons, but we still want vengeance and punishment. and I’m not saying I’m above that: someone kills someone I love, and I’m going to want blood. On paper I’m against capital punishment, but I know if I was faced with a war on my doorstep, bombs being dropped, my morals may not hold.

In Star Trek, they had WW3/the Eugenics Wars, and after that…humanity finally had enough. Never again, but for all the ills of humanity, in a way.

So very few people in the Trek world would actually complain about working a shit detail, because they’re in it for the greater good. We saw in TNG episodes that randos from the 20th century could just waltz around the ship at their leisure, and how lax security is…because people just generally behaved well. Humanity really did bind themselves to a stronger social contract, if that’s the right term.

As for needing ships: there seem to be plenty of civilian ships out there, from trading and light exploration to proper science vessels. Not all Starfleet, though the shows have focused on them. So I can only imagine there’s plenty of opportunity for non-Starfleet folks to get out there.

Granted, DS9 pushed back on all this a little, as the Maquis are comprised of a lot of Federation members that went feral/colonial and don’t hold themselves to the Federation ideals that seem to keep the rest of humanity and others acting in good faith at almost all times. Likewise still plenty of BadMirals out there, and they do show the Tom Paris-es of the world in some kind of prison, so it’s not all roses, and could definitely be spun as drops of dystopia in a utopia, but we’re also told (and have no reason to doubt) that it’s all well-above board, humane, and focused on rehabilitation instead of punishment.

Also, all that said, I do wish it wasn’t so hierarchical, but that’s my anarchist streak flaring up.

Also, if you bailed after driving the hovercraft, maybe you didn’t get to Black Mesa East, or Ravenholm? IMHO that’s where things really ramp up: story-wise (you meet more allies), and you get a better glimpse at the endgame. You get a neat tool to use (which also was mind-blowing in 2004, less so almost twenty years later), too.

If you don’t dig it though, I wouldn’t force it. I’m a fan of science fiction more than fantasy, so I’ve never finished a Dishonored game, but I love Prey. Just doesn’t hook me the way I know it could…just not my particular vibe I guess, which I think is OK.

Yeah, I’m reminded of one of the things the Emissary himself tried to explain to the Prophets. In this case, however, the past experience guiding Pike’s choices in the present is already in the future…

Prophet - OPS OFFICER: You have no regard for the consequences of your acts.

SISKO: That’s not true. We’re aware that every choice we make has a consequence.

Prophet - CAPTAIN: But you claim you do not know what it will be.

SISKO: We don’t.

Prophet - JAKE: Then how can you take responsibility for your actions?

Sisko: We use past experiences to help guide us. For Jennifer and me, all the experiences in our lives prepared us for the day we met on the beach, helped us recognize that we had a future together. When we married, we accepted all the consequences of that act, whatever they might be, including the consequences of you.

Cited from: http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/401.htm

They would have had the money and time for the CGI if they didn’t spend so much in footage for all of Morn’s damn monologues.

There was a recent speech/plan/diatribe about this kind of thing by Cory Doctorow a couple months back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rimtaSgGz_4

What I most appreciated about it is that in addition to describing the problems we’re facing, he also proposed some actual fixes that are possible - though not without organization and concerted effort from those of us who care about this kind of thing!

I struggle to find what to say, because I’m just some random schmuck on the internet. Plenty of people post vile comments, so I’m going to post a saccharine one, in honor of your friend.

Others have said it already, but I’ll say it again because why not: your voice online has been a pleasure.

Grief is terrible, and I’m sorry you lost a loved one. I’m lucky enough to have a friend like the one you describe. We’re a big part of each others’ support system, and a lot of what we talk about winds up being Trek. I say that only to let you know that your grief will help me remember why I should cherish my friend, while we’re both around. Maybe that doesn’t do you any good, hopefully it doesn’t come across as selfish/insensitive on my part (if so, you have my apology in advance), but maybe it’s some consolation that you and your buddy are inspiring others who have never even met you. We all have an effect on people’s lives, whether we know when it happens or not. Just being some kind of role model, even in a small way, will influence people for the better. That’s my hope, anyway. So you and your buddy have clearly been doing this for a lot of us, here. I’m sure elsewhere. You don’t owe any of us anything, but I know seeing your positivity makes me smile.

Gotta say though, I wouldn’t mind the unceremonious death of Jadzia if it wasn’t wrapped up in the sexist contract disputes, because the character is the perfect one to kill off, because she was (in a sense) only mostly dead! Imagine if we had gotten the chance to see Ezri talk to Jadzia, like we saw Jadzia talk to former hosts.

The two of them could work through the complications of living on the same station as Jadzia’s husband, how her death wasn’t some honorable warrior’s death like Jadzia (and Curzon) would have dreamed about, and how Ezria wasn’t ready for the responsibility of being a host. There’s a lot of really interesting stuff writers could play with there, and I think Adira and Gray in Discovery have showed there’s some nice storytelling potential there (the same kind of additions to canon could have happened with Ezri and Jadzia, in terms of a traumatic host transfer causing unexpected bonds between the hosts’ memories).

Precisely. I voted today and it took a few minutes of my time. There was still plenty of time in the morning to keep working on the things I think will make more of an impact re: improving things somewhat. Mutual aid and anything else in the bucket of “resisting tyrannical government” is much easier when it’s only +1 more evil rather than +10.